Discussion:
Pre-paid credit cards.
(too old to reply)
Alasdair
2011-04-27 22:39:04 UTC
Permalink
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.

Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.

After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.

The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.

It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.

Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
Norman Wells
2011-04-28 07:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
Yes, but it's not a credit card as such. Google "pre-paid Mastercard" for
example. As an additional benefit, one of those will also give you access
to the actual fares that Ryanair advertise.
tim....
2011-04-28 11:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
They do, except that they don't look like credit cards (to the supplier).

I got one of these cards intending to use it in this way, only to find that
it was rejected for the purchase that wanted to make as it wasn't a type of
card that they accepted.

Things may be different now though.

tim
Mark Goodge
2011-04-28 18:28:09 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 23:39:04 +0100, Alasdair put finger to keyboard and
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
They all do. But that's because they're not really credit cards. They're
actually debit cards, and will appear as such to the vendor's card handling
system. Some hoteliers and rental firms won't take debit cards at all,
others will only do so if they can place a hold on the amount of both the
full rental bill plus an excess to cover possible damage and extras (eg, in
a hotel, the minibar). So you won't be able to do what you suggest, as even
if they accept the card you will need to have significantly more funds on
it than the actual cost of the bill.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Stephen
2011-05-01 16:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Goodge
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 23:39:04 +0100, Alasdair put finger to keyboard and
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
They all do. But that's because they're not really credit cards. They're
actually debit cards, and will appear as such to the vendor's card handling
system. Some hoteliers and rental firms won't take debit cards at all,
others will only do so if they can place a hold on the amount of both the
full rental bill plus an excess to cover possible damage and extras (eg, in
a hotel, the minibar). So you won't be able to do what you suggest, as even
if they accept the card you will need to have significantly more funds on
it than the actual cost of the bill.
Mark
So if you use an actual credit card and have Guns 'n Roses round for a
party in your room, and the ming vase gets smashed, does the credit
card company guarantee to cover to cost even if it's way over your
credit limit?
Mark Goodge
2011-05-01 17:55:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 1 May 2011 17:10:15 +0100, Stephen put finger to keyboard and
Post by Stephen
Post by Mark Goodge
They all do. But that's because they're not really credit cards. They're
actually debit cards, and will appear as such to the vendor's card handling
system. Some hoteliers and rental firms won't take debit cards at all,
others will only do so if they can place a hold on the amount of both the
full rental bill plus an excess to cover possible damage and extras (eg, in
a hotel, the minibar). So you won't be able to do what you suggest, as even
if they accept the card you will need to have significantly more funds on
it than the actual cost of the bill.
So if you use an actual credit card and have Guns 'n Roses round for a
party in your room, and the ming vase gets smashed, does the credit
card company guarantee to cover to cost even if it's way over your
credit limit?
No, the amount that can be taken by the hotel is subject to a limit. And
that would be very unlikely to cover a Ming vase. Any damage you cause in
excess of the limit, therefore, would need to be pursued through the courts
in the usual way.

However, the damage limit has nothing to do with your own credit limit. If
you caused, say, £500 worth of damage but only had £100 credit left on your
card, the card company would pay the full £500 and put you over your limit.
If it was a debit card then it would result in an unauthorised (or excess)
overdraft.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2011-05-01 18:11:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:55:04 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 1 May 2011 17:10:15 +0100, Stephen put finger to keyboard and
Post by Stephen
Post by Mark Goodge
They all do. But that's because they're not really credit cards. They're
actually debit cards, and will appear as such to the vendor's card handling
system. Some hoteliers and rental firms won't take debit cards at all,
others will only do so if they can place a hold on the amount of both the
full rental bill plus an excess to cover possible damage and extras (eg, in
a hotel, the minibar). So you won't be able to do what you suggest, as even
if they accept the card you will need to have significantly more funds on
it than the actual cost of the bill.
So if you use an actual credit card and have Guns 'n Roses round for a
party in your room, and the ming vase gets smashed, does the credit
card company guarantee to cover to cost even if it's way over your
credit limit?
No, the amount that can be taken by the hotel is subject to a limit. And
that would be very unlikely to cover a Ming vase. Any damage you cause in
excess of the limit, therefore, would need to be pursued through the courts
in the usual way.
However, the damage limit has nothing to do with your own credit limit. If
you caused, say, £500 worth of damage but only had £100 credit left on your
card, the card company would pay the full £500 and put you over your limit.
If it was a debit card then it would result in an unauthorised (or excess)
overdraft.
I had an issue with my credit card issuer over this once after a hotel
made additional charges to my account without my knowledge and
resulted in me exceeding my credit limit.

One of the clauses in the terms and conditions of the credit card that
I agreed to when I opened the account was to use the card within the
credit limit allocated to me. I asked the card company how I was
expected to comply with that condition when a merchant was apparently
allowed to make random charges to my account without my knowledge or
consent.

The script that the person in the call centre was using must have run
out at that point, and her agitated response made no sense at all. I
never did get a proper answer to that question.

Chris
Mark Goodge
2011-05-01 21:06:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 May 2011 02:11:07 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:55:04 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
However, the damage limit has nothing to do with your own credit limit. If
you caused, say, £500 worth of damage but only had £100 credit left on your
card, the card company would pay the full £500 and put you over your limit.
If it was a debit card then it would result in an unauthorised (or excess)
overdraft.
I had an issue with my credit card issuer over this once after a hotel
made additional charges to my account without my knowledge and
resulted in me exceeding my credit limit.
One of the clauses in the terms and conditions of the credit card that
I agreed to when I opened the account was to use the card within the
credit limit allocated to me. I asked the card company how I was
expected to comply with that condition when a merchant was apparently
allowed to make random charges to my account without my knowledge or
consent.
It's the same if you sign up to a Continuous Charge Authority (CCA). A
merchant which has a CCA on your account can take arbitrary amounts at any
time, limited only by their own floor limit with their card handler. But if
any charge they levy takes you over your limit, then as far as your card
provider is concerned it's your fault and you are liable for any excess
charges incurred.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2011-05-02 06:31:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 May 2011 22:06:03 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 02 May 2011 02:11:07 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:55:04 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
However, the damage limit has nothing to do with your own credit limit. If
you caused, say, £500 worth of damage but only had £100 credit left on your
card, the card company would pay the full £500 and put you over your limit.
If it was a debit card then it would result in an unauthorised (or excess)
overdraft.
I had an issue with my credit card issuer over this once after a hotel
made additional charges to my account without my knowledge and
resulted in me exceeding my credit limit.
One of the clauses in the terms and conditions of the credit card that
I agreed to when I opened the account was to use the card within the
credit limit allocated to me. I asked the card company how I was
expected to comply with that condition when a merchant was apparently
allowed to make random charges to my account without my knowledge or
consent.
It's the same if you sign up to a Continuous Charge Authority (CCA). A
merchant which has a CCA on your account can take arbitrary amounts at any
time, limited only by their own floor limit with their card handler. But if
any charge they levy takes you over your limit, then as far as your card
provider is concerned it's your fault and you are liable for any excess
charges incurred.
It quite different from signing a CCA.

With a CCA, I give authority to a merchant who I trust to make regular
debits to my account. Its up to me to determine what those amounts
will be and when they will be taken.

I have not signed any CCA with the hotel. I am authorising them to
make a one-off charge to my account for a specific amount that I sign
for when I check-out. As far as I am concerned, that is the only
amount I agree to them to taking unless they contact me should there
be a need for an additional charge.

If the credit card company is going to allow unauthorised charges to
my account without my knowledge then it is quite impossible for me to
comply with the terms of my agreement with them that I will not exceed
my credit limit.

Chris
Mark Goodge
2011-05-02 08:46:51 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 May 2011 14:31:44 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 01 May 2011 22:06:03 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 02 May 2011 02:11:07 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
One of the clauses in the terms and conditions of the credit card that
I agreed to when I opened the account was to use the card within the
credit limit allocated to me. I asked the card company how I was
expected to comply with that condition when a merchant was apparently
allowed to make random charges to my account without my knowledge or
consent.
It's the same if you sign up to a Continuous Charge Authority (CCA). A
merchant which has a CCA on your account can take arbitrary amounts at any
time, limited only by their own floor limit with their card handler. But if
any charge they levy takes you over your limit, then as far as your card
provider is concerned it's your fault and you are liable for any excess
charges incurred.
It quite different from signing a CCA.
With a CCA, I give authority to a merchant who I trust to make regular
debits to my account. Its up to me to determine what those amounts
will be and when they will be taken.
No, when you sign a CCA you give them the right to decide what amounts they
will take and when they will take them.
Post by Chris Blunt
I have not signed any CCA with the hotel. I am authorising them to
make a one-off charge to my account for a specific amount that I sign
for when I check-out. As far as I am concerned, that is the only
amount I agree to them to taking unless they contact me should there
be a need for an additional charge.
No, you have also authorised them to take any further funds necessary to
cover any additional costs incurred during your stay.
Post by Chris Blunt
If the credit card company is going to allow unauthorised charges to
my account without my knowledge then it is quite impossible for me to
comply with the terms of my agreement with them that I will not exceed
my credit limit.
As far as your credit card company is concered, you have authorised it. The
fact that you may have done so out of ignorance is no defence.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2011-05-03 08:02:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 May 2011 09:46:51 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 02 May 2011 14:31:44 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
It quite different from signing a CCA.
With a CCA, I give authority to a merchant who I trust to make regular
debits to my account. Its up to me to determine what those amounts
will be and when they will be taken.
No, when you sign a CCA you give them the right to decide what amounts they
will take and when they will take them.
I agree, and that's exactly what I said. My use of the word
"determine" was intended to mean "ascertain" in that context, not
"decide".
Post by Mark Goodge
Post by Chris Blunt
I have not signed any CCA with the hotel. I am authorising them to
make a one-off charge to my account for a specific amount that I sign
for when I check-out. As far as I am concerned, that is the only
amount I agree to them to taking unless they contact me should there
be a need for an additional charge.
No, you have also authorised them to take any further funds necessary to
cover any additional costs incurred during your stay.
No. I authorise only what I say I authorise. Nobody tells me I have
authorised something I haven't agreed to. Some hotels do try to get me
to sign an invoice on checking out which reads something to the
effect:

"I agree that my liability for this bill is not waived and agree to
be held personally liable in the event that the indicated person or
company failed to pay for any part or full amount of these charges."

I always cross that statement through now before signing it. If the
hotel doesn't like it they had better decide pretty fast what they
believe I owe them because I'm not leaving them with a blank cheque to
fill in later.
Post by Mark Goodge
Post by Chris Blunt
If the credit card company is going to allow unauthorised charges to
my account without my knowledge then it is quite impossible for me to
comply with the terms of my agreement with them that I will not exceed
my credit limit.
As far as your credit card company is concered, you have authorised it. The
fact that you may have done so out of ignorance is no defence.
Again, I have authorised exactly what I have signed to say I am
authorising. Nothing else.

Chris
Mark Goodge
2011-05-03 17:13:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 May 2011 16:02:55 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
On Mon, 02 May 2011 09:46:51 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 02 May 2011 14:31:44 +0800, Chris Blunt put finger to keyboard and
Post by Chris Blunt
It quite different from signing a CCA.
With a CCA, I give authority to a merchant who I trust to make regular
debits to my account. Its up to me to determine what those amounts
will be and when they will be taken.
No, when you sign a CCA you give them the right to decide what amounts they
will take and when they will take them.
I agree, and that's exactly what I said. My use of the word
"determine" was intended to mean "ascertain" in that context, not
"decide".
Right, I see what you mean now.
Post by Chris Blunt
Post by Mark Goodge
Post by Chris Blunt
I have not signed any CCA with the hotel. I am authorising them to
make a one-off charge to my account for a specific amount that I sign
for when I check-out. As far as I am concerned, that is the only
amount I agree to them to taking unless they contact me should there
be a need for an additional charge.
No, you have also authorised them to take any further funds necessary to
cover any additional costs incurred during your stay.
No. I authorise only what I say I authorise. Nobody tells me I have
authorised something I haven't agreed to. Some hotels do try to get me
to sign an invoice on checking out which reads something to the
"I agree that my liability for this bill is not waived and agree to
be held personally liable in the event that the indicated person or
company failed to pay for any part or full amount of these charges."
I always cross that statement through now before signing it. If the
hotel doesn't like it they had better decide pretty fast what they
believe I owe them because I'm not leaving them with a blank cheque to
fill in later.
That's a different issue, and if you're trying to avoid any responsibility
for damage debits then you're crossing out the wrong bit. What you're
actually crossing out is the part which makes you liable in the event that
the card company, for whatever reason, refuses to pass on your payment to
them. I'm not entirely sure that you could actually decline that liability,
since it doesn't need to be agreed to in order to exist.

What you need to find, and delete, is the section which allows them to take
funds to cover any damage or other expenses incurred during your stay. But
you'll be signing up to that right at the start, during the check in, and I
suspect that if you do try to delete it they will simply decline to let you
have the room.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Alasdair
2011-05-05 13:09:25 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:13:01 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
What you need to find, and delete, is the section which allows them to take
funds to cover any damage or other expenses incurred during your stay. But
you'll be signing up to that right at the start, during the check in, and I
suspect that if you do try to delete it they will simply decline to let you
have the room.
Mark
What happens if they agreed in advance either over the phone or by
email to let you have the room with no exclusion clauses stated. They
cannot then introduce new terms after the contract has been concluded.
(Olley v The Marlborough Court Hotel).
Mark Goodge
2011-05-05 16:48:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 05 May 2011 14:09:25 +0100, Alasdair put finger to keyboard and
Post by Alasdair
On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:13:01 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
What you need to find, and delete, is the section which allows them to take
funds to cover any damage or other expenses incurred during your stay. But
you'll be signing up to that right at the start, during the check in, and I
suspect that if you do try to delete it they will simply decline to let you
have the room.
Mark
What happens if they agreed in advance either over the phone or by
email to let you have the room with no exclusion clauses stated. They
cannot then introduce new terms after the contract has been concluded.
(Olley v The Marlborough Court Hotel).
You still owe them the money for the room. If you're not prepared to pay it
in a form acceptable to them (eg, a credit card on which they can levy a
damage charge if necessary), then you are in breach of the contract and
they have no obligation to supply the room.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Alasdair
2011-05-05 22:34:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 05 May 2011 17:48:54 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
You still owe them the money for the room. If you're not prepared to pay it
in a form acceptable to them (eg, a credit card on which they can levy a
damage charge if necessary), then you are in breach of the contract and
they have no obligation to supply the room.
Mark
If no specific form of payment is stipulated in the original contract,
surely legal tender, e.g. cash, has to be accepted in settlement.
Cards are not legal tender so why should the hotel be able to insert
the term (payment by card) after the contract has been concluded?
Mark Goodge
2011-05-06 06:34:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 05 May 2011 23:34:46 +0100, Alasdair put finger to keyboard and
Post by Alasdair
On Thu, 05 May 2011 17:48:54 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
You still owe them the money for the room. If you're not prepared to pay it
in a form acceptable to them (eg, a credit card on which they can levy a
damage charge if necessary), then you are in breach of the contract and
they have no obligation to supply the room.
Mark
If no specific form of payment is stipulated in the original contract,
surely legal tender, e.g. cash, has to be accepted in settlement.
No, because it's not a debt as the service has not yet been provided. And,
in any case, the legal requirement to accept legal tender is rather more
constrained than many people (including, it would appear, you) think it is.
Post by Alasdair
Cards are not legal tender so why should the hotel be able to insert
the term (payment by card) after the contract has been concluded?
The contract hasn't been concluded.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2011-05-06 08:00:24 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:13:01 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
What you need to find, and delete, is the section which allows them to take
funds to cover any damage or other expenses incurred during your stay. But
you'll be signing up to that right at the start, during the check in, and I
suspect that if you do try to delete it they will simply decline to let you
have the room.
I don't believe I've ever signed such an agreement at check-in. I do
sign a registration form, but I don't recall seeing anything there
that allows them to make further charges to my credit card without my
authorisation.

Some hotels I stay at are prepaid using vouchers provided by online
reservation services so no credit card is needed in those cases. In
fact many people don't have credit cards at all. If what you are
saying is correct then none of those people would ever be able to stay
at hotels.

Chris
S
2011-05-11 20:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:13:01 +0100, Mark Goodge
Post by Mark Goodge
What you need to find, and delete, is the section which allows them to take
funds to cover any damage or other expenses incurred during your stay. But
you'll be signing up to that right at the start, during the check in, and I
suspect that if you do try to delete it they will simply decline to let you
have the room.
I don't believe I've ever signed such an agreement at check-in. I do
sign a registration form, but I don't recall seeing anything there
that allows them to make further charges to my credit card without my
authorisation.
Some hotels I stay at are prepaid using vouchers provided by online
reservation services so no credit card is needed in those cases. In
fact many people don't have credit cards at all. If what you are
saying is correct then none of those people would ever be able to stay
at hotels.
I have stayed at hotels which did not even take credit cards.
tim....
2011-05-02 06:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 1 May 2011 17:10:15 +0100, Stephen put finger to keyboard and
Post by Stephen
Post by Mark Goodge
They all do. But that's because they're not really credit cards. They're
actually debit cards, and will appear as such to the vendor's card handling
system. Some hoteliers and rental firms won't take debit cards at all,
others will only do so if they can place a hold on the amount of both the
full rental bill plus an excess to cover possible damage and extras (eg, in
a hotel, the minibar). So you won't be able to do what you suggest, as even
if they accept the card you will need to have significantly more funds on
it than the actual cost of the bill.
So if you use an actual credit card and have Guns 'n Roses round for a
party in your room, and the ming vase gets smashed, does the credit
card company guarantee to cover to cost even if it's way over your
credit limit?
No, the amount that can be taken by the hotel is subject to a limit. And
that would be very unlikely to cover a Ming vase. Any damage you cause in
excess of the limit, therefore, would need to be pursued through the courts
in the usual way.
However, the damage limit has nothing to do with your own credit limit. If
you caused, say, £500 worth of damage but only had £100 credit left on your
card, the card company would pay the full £500 and put you over your limit.
If it was a debit card then it would result in an unauthorised (or excess)
overdraft.
Only if the bank had some expectation of such an overdraft being cleared.

If the didn't, they would reject the debit.

tim
Johnboy
2011-05-15 20:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no longer
king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to the
card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or whatever.
The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to sue for a
refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage to
their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the amount
on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel would then
have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
Apart from the prepaid card route - What stops you (once you learn of the
added charge) from ringing the headphone monkeys at the credit card
company and saying that you dispute the charge, and that it should be
refunded to you immediately?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that you are buying the "goods" from
the credit card company, and "if you aint had 'em, then they cannot
charge you fer 'em"

Please, all you who know more about things, set flames to off, I would
like to know the answer too!
SILVER GOLD BOSS
2017-01-06 21:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
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Country : US
********
United State (visa/master) = $8
United State (amex/disco) = $10
United State (bin/dob) = $15
United State (fullz info) = $30

Country : UK
********
Uniter Kingdom (visa/master) = $15
Uniter Kingdom (bin/dob) = $30
Uniter Kingdom (amex/disco) = $30
Uniter Kingdom (fullz info) = $40

Country : CA
********
Canada (random) = $15
Canada (bin/dob) = $30
Canada (fullz info) = $40

Country : AUS
********
Australias (random) = $20
Australias (bin/dob) = $30
Australias (fullz info) = $45

Country : EU...
********
France = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Germany = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Italy = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Sweden = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Spain = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Denmark = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Ireland = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Mexico = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)
Asia = $25 ___ (fullz info = $50)

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400880, 401343, 401344, 404842, 413776, 414019, 414691, 454495, 455025,
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448527, 510174, 510241, 518645, 530120, 530123, 540438, 540439, 540440,
543468, 543470, 543474, 543480, 543482, 543484, 543556, 543699, 545100,
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446219, 446221, 446222, 446223, 446224, 446238, 446239, 446247, 446248,
446249, 446250, 446279, 446280, 492181, 492182, 465842, 465854, 484424,
491755…

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373321, 373328, 373355, 373384, 373494, 373996, 373999, 403276, 403279,
405802, 412650, 453092, 453750, 453818, 453825, 453828, 454032, 454698,
457288, 472583, 519391, 547456, 547511, 547802, 547898, 552612, 552749,
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432190 – 99,
445808, 450644, 450670, 451948, 454003, 458501, 471401, 472476, 486342,
503886, 522122, 528030, 529558, 531704, 531729, 539847, 545409, 551029…

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376001, 376008, 376011, 376026, 377702, 377832, 377850, 377852, 377877,
404341, 405221, 405498, 407220, 407264, 408177, 409349, 409774, 426033,
426610, 434402, 437731, 450912, 450986, 455702, 456444, 456469, 456481,
460184, 463783, 468524, 472437, 483822, 490237, 494053, 498414, 514045,
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413316, 413340, 418244, 418246, 421529, 421645, 421646, 421699, 423912,
423913, 423914, 423915, 423990, 425135, 426035, 426909, 426937, 426938,
426943, 428314, 428315, 428316, 450713, 443499, 456008, 456406, 456474,
461963, 486271, 489981, 493414, 512127, 514813, 515295, 516100 – 09,
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***** Bin EU (Italy,Denmark,France,Netherlands,Germany,Russian) *****

401805, 402360, 409015, 413585, 416029, 424607, 425723, 435659, 450608,
450625, 450663, 453243, 454108, 454617, 454618, 455218, 455221, 455262,
456140, 456354, 456542, 456997, 457101, 457109, 457119, 457136, 459996,
461668, 467293, 473116, 477547, 486447, 490744 ,490829, 490943, 491889,
492044, 492057, 492119, 492121, 492520, 492591, 493846, 494028, 496626,
497301, 497306, 523224, 523252, 523276, 523298, 535329, 541256, 541327,
541869, 543012, 546899, 549003, 549713, 552143…

Format Card (Random)
====================

**** DEMO CC USA:
4117733939985949 | 03/2016 | 790 | Mike | Philippe | 3815 AVENUE I 3RD FL | BROOKLYN | NY | 11210 | USA | 347-394-7074 | ***@gmail.com |
5465280085806540 | 08/2020 | 794 | Brandi Skillman | 1410 30TH AVE NW APT 3301 | MINOT | ND | 58703 | USA | 7018182918 | ***@GMAIL.COM
6011008260905564 | 03 | 2020 | 673 | Stacy | Liu | 2820 SW 33rd Ct. | Miami | 33133 | UNITED STATES | 9167042216 | ***@gmail.com
373965748412007 | 07 / 2016 | 7922 | sandy beechinor | N 36715 sherman | DEER PARK | 99006 | WA | USA | 5092767387 | ***@aol.com

**** DEMO CC UK:
4921816704367231|04|2017|653|SOHAIL|AHMED|137 Springfield Road|Moseley|BIRMINGHAM|B13 9ND|UNITED KINGDOM|441217778326|***@yahoo.co.uk

**** DEMO CC CA:
5457499001853366|05|2018|302|Cassandra Tourangeau|1417 Flower Station Road|Lanark|Ontario|K0G1K0|Canada|6138126338|

**** DEMO CC AUS:
5430489100598014|10|2014|815|Sharyn Brew|6 Inglewood Close Croydon|Croydon|Victoria|3136|Australia|0417805265

**** DEMO CC MALAYSIA:
5472310269029105|04/2021|899 Ee Hong Lau No 2314|Chieng Son Garden,|Riam Road MIRI|state 98000|Malaysia

***** DEMO CC SPAIN:
4966267615954012|02/18|683|SALVADOR GALISTEO MUNOZ / SALVADOR GALISTEO MUNOZ|BULEVAR ALTO TAJO 4 4 B|GUADALAJARA|N/A|19005|Spain|

***** DEMO CC FRANCE
4561079000681111|04|20|400|Benjamin|chayette|9 rue benjamin godard |75116|paris |0235240732|FRANCE|

***** DEMO CC ITALY
4565420079693239|11/2017|159|SILVIA CARLETTO|VIA SIGNORI, 2|S. CRISTINA DI QUINTO|TV|31055|0422471003|***@libero.it

***** DEMO CC DENMARK
4571717006927149|0117|057||Søren Damsgaard|Andersen|Tjørnevej 13|Salten|Them|Midtjylland|Denmark|8653|***@mail.d k

***** DEMO CC BRAZIL
5256640301990043|02|2018|415|Ivan Carlos|Buzzi|Rua Campo Alegre,454|Ilha da Figueira|Jaragua do Sul|SC|89258-100|***@yahoo.com.br

***** DEMO CC NORWAY
4110021010519390|06|19|719|MORTEN NILSEN|Morten|Nilsen|Steinmoguto 23||Nesbyen|3540|NORWAY|***@chipmycar.no

***** DEMO CC NETHERLAND
5209530059564397|06|2016|437|P.J.M. Vervoort-van Doorn|Eerschotsestraat 40 Sint-Oedenrode|State|5491|AC|Netherlands

***** DEMO CC CHINA
4063651030374256|10|2018|254|MAGGIE|HUANG||802 BANK ST.|Ottawa|K1S3V8|+1 6135670382|CHINA|

***** DEMO CC ARGENTINA
4546400019311815|02|19|461|Facundo Badillo|Facundo|Badillo|Blanco Encalada 5678|Buenos Aires||1440|Argentina

***** DEMO CC JAPAN
4541147834772011|12/2016|400|TAKASHI KOSUGE Takashi Kosuge|1-1 Oho||Tsukuba|3050801|Japan

***** DEMO CC PHILIPPINES:
5194630205920498|03|2026|776|LORNA|MIRANDA|APOLLOLAAN 7|AMSTERDAM|1077 AA|+31 684476978|PHILIPPINES|

***** DEMO CC NEW ZEALAND:
4999132341881247|11/2016|052|Michael Hobbs|1116 Leeston Rd,Irwell Village,RD3|Leeston,Arizona,7632 |New Zealand

***** DEMO CC IRELAND:
4319454004186406|04|2020|420|michelle|plunkett|132 forest hills|Rathcoole| 0851268766|IRELAND|***@hotmail.com|

***** DEMO CC SAUDI ARABIA
4339870060055886|02|2019|755|Seba|A|421 W Broadway, long beach|Los angeles|90802|+1 9492954885|SAUDI ARABIA

***** DEMO CC INDIA:

5546370226887914|02|2017|918|Bhamini|Pattabhiraman||Old 43/2, New 52/2, 11th Avenue,|Chennai|600083|+91 9500032305|INDIA

***** DEMO CC MEXICO:
4179670383241608|03|2018|679|Aida Monica|Valdez||Paseo de los Estudiantes 2035 Col. Cumbres 2o Sector|Monterrey, Nuevo Leon|Nuevo Leon|64640|+52 8110804973|Mexico|

***** DEMO CC BELGIUM:
4454719292556113|10/2017| 880 |Christine Rillaerts | leuvensebaan 51| Ottenburg Antwerpen| 3040 | BELGIUM |

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I am very happy to serve you long time, thanks!
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DUMPS BASE USA | APPROVAL 95% | TRACK 1 | TRACK 2 | CODE | STATE | CITYE | ZIP CODE
==================================
Track1: B4342562932763970^MEJIA/ JENNIFER ^19082010000000 00262000000
Track2: 4342562932763970=19082010000000262
Country Code: US
State: CA
City: Los Angeles
ZIP: 90022
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: B4170210011486405^ISSUE BRANDED/INSTANT^1807101000002372175725
Track2: 4170210011486405=18071010000000000100
Country Code: US
State: CA
City: Long Beach
ZIP: 90815
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: PREPAID
Purchase Pin 4100
==================================
Track1: B4867967004268433^SHELTON/NICHOLAS S^180820100
Track2: 4867967004268433=18082010000067100000
Country Code: US
State: OR
City: Eugene
ZIP: 97403
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: PLATINUM
==================================
Track1: B4246315201270657^LEE/HAROLD ^1712201100001100
Track2: 4246315201270657=171220110000005
Country Code: US
State: OR
City: Eugene
ZIP: 97403
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: CREDIT
Subtype: BUSINESS
==================================
Track1: %B4430473039706685^LIZER/DEJA^1707101180891
Track2: 4430473039706685=1707101180891850
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: Spartanburg
ZIP: 29306
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: N/A
Track2: 4737034988793858=17111010000000064
Country Code: US
State: OH
City: Milford
ZIP: 45150
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC Pin 3100
==================================
Track1: %B4271992353727169^VARN/ JODY R^171110100000000000383000000
Track2: 4271992353727169=17111010000000000383
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: West Columbia
ZIP: 29170
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: N/A
Track2: 379609795712000=191020115080891900000
Country Code: US
State: GA
City: Atlanta
ZIP: 30338
Type: AMERICAN EXPRESS
Debit/Credit: CREDIT
Subtype: N/A
==================================
Track1: %B5312580070546414^MOORE/KAITLYN NOELLE^1908201000000000842500425000000
Track2: 5312580070546414=19082010000000008425
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: Hartsville
ZIP: 29550
Type: MASTERCARD
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: STANDARD
==================================
Track1: %B4430473023177653^WILLIAMS/ANDREW T^1808201101001
Track2: 4430473023177653=1808201101001534
Country Code: US
State: GA
City: Norcross
ZIP: 30071
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: N/A
Track2: 4661890015051788=16071010000001218
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: Columbia
ZIP: 29209
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: %B4400669708832258^BARNES/THOMAS ^1609201000000000000901371001000
Track2: 4400669708832258=16092019010037100100
Country Code: US
State: IA
City: Marion
ZIP: 52302
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: CREDIT
Subtype: SIGNATURE
==================================
Track1: N/A
Track2: 4133665136280254=19081010000051200000
Country Code: US
State: MT
City: N/A
ZIP: N/A
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC

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Track1 : B4784559000586171^Andrew/Mayerbach^150310100000000000003343300003700000000
Track2 : 4784559000586171=15031010003343300003700
ATM Pin : 5241
------

Dumps + Pin ( Canada )
Track1 : B4530920124710013^Bibliotheque^1703220612800000054 7000000
Track2 : 4530920124710013=17032206128000547000
ATM Pin : 3377
------

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Track1 : B4072209014479002^Priya/Selva-Nayagam^18082010000000000112000000
Track2 : 4072209014479002=18082010000000112000
ATM Pin : 5081
------

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Track1 : B4067701731557109^Wei-Chun/Chang^19011014045400000988000000
Track2 : 4067701731557109=19011014045400988000
ATM Pin 2405
------

Dumps + Pin ( France )
Track1 : B4974903419054100^guihard/pascal^18021104400000000091000000
Track2 : 4974903419054100=18021104400000091000
ATM Pin : 0004
------

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Track1 : B4155650149958727^FATIH/GUCER^17101103410400000211000000
Track2 : 4155650149958727=17101103410400211000
ATM Pin : 9889
------

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Track1 : B4541148282107007^Mamiko/Kobayashi^25072100000000000221000000
Track2 : 4541148282107007=2507210000000221000
ATM Pin : 5447
------

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Track1 : B5221182034692226^Western/Cape^15011010000000000549000000
Track2 : 5221182034692226=15011010000000549000
ATM Pin : 7463

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I'm looking for who can work together
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TMMAN HIT
2017-05-16 16:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alasdair
I was wondering if it is possible to get a pre-paid credit card that
will pay out to the amount deposited and no more.
Hotels and car hire companies are getting very crafty these days. If
you stay at a hotel, they insist on payment by card -- cash is no
longer king.
After you have checked out, they can then make additional charges to
the card claiming that the Ming vase in your room was damaged or
whatever. The hotel has the money and then it is up to the guest to
sue for a refund.
The same applies to car hire companies who may claim money for damage
to their car caused after the hirer returned it.
It occurred to me that if I used a pre-paid credit card that will pay
out to the amount deposited and no more and I made sure that the
amount on the card was the price on the bill and no more, the hotel
would then have to sue me for the damage they alleged happened to
their Ming vase.
Do any prepaid credit cards work like this?
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****** Contact more information ********

+++ http://atmsilver.blogspot.com
+++ EMAIL ADDRESS: ***@gmail.com
+++ ICQ : 664198618

=====> Sell(Credit/Debit)Card + CVV2 Fresh Good For Shopping <=====

***** RANDOM - BIN - FULLZINFO - DOB+SSN - NON + PASS VBV *****

+ US
+ UK
+ CA
+ Au
+ EU ( Ireland,Inter,Ger,FR,ITA,Spain,Netherlands,Switzerland.more...)
+ Inter
+ Brazil
+ India
+ Japan
+ Turkey
+ Asia ( Philippines,Malaysia,HongKong,Indonesia,Thailand,Singapor..more)
+ ...and orther country...( contact me to know more )..

Format is:
Card Number | Exp. Date | CVV/CVV2 | First Name | Last Name | Street | City
| State | Zip Code | Country | Phone | Type Of Card | Bank Name

*** All our cc are checked before sending.
*** We guarantee that our cc are good with good balances!
-RULE 1: I never sell the same CC to more than a person.
-RULE 2: I don’t share CC, CVV for test free.
-RULE 3: All my CC, CVV always are fresh and live.
-RULE 4: All my CC, CVVs are checked.

https://justpaste.it/worldumpsbinlist

ICQ 664198618 >> ATM™Worldwide >> ***@gmail.com

Worldwide Cvv || Account Dumps || Database Carder || Hacker Carder
Carding Group || Carding Methods || Credit Card Dumps || Debit Card Dumps
Fresh Skimmed || ATM Dumps Pin || Track 1,Track 2 || Original Track 2
Best Quality || Strong Bins || Lowest Prices || Hight Value || Valid 100%


****** CANADA - CHINA - JAPAN - EUROPE - KOREA - HONGKONG - ASIA - TURNKEY - INTER
- BIG BASES PACKS 101 - 201 MIXED BIG BASE USA ANY STATE FRESH VALIDITY 85% - 95% ******

+ California - 101/201 code
+ Maryland - 101/201 code
+ Virginia - 101/201 code
+ Pennsylvania - 101/201 code
+ Washington - 101/201 code
+ Arizona/Phoenix - 101/201 code
+ Florida - 101/201 code
+ Illinois - 101/201 code
+ Indiana - 101/201 code
+ North Carolina - 101/201 code
+ New Jersey - 101/201 code
+ New York - 101/201 code
+ South Carolina - 101/201 code
+ Texas - 101/201 code
+ Utah/Pleasant Grove - 101/201 code

*********************************************************

*USA:101
MasterCard Standart, Visa Classic ? $45
Visa Gold|Platinum|Corporate|Signature|Business ? $50
American Express ? $50 ( WITHOUT SID )
Discover ? $50

*CANADA:101 201
MasterCard Standart, Visa Classic ? $55
Visa Gold|Platinum|Corporate|Signature|Business ? $60

*EU:101 201
MasterCard Standart, Visa Classic ? $85
Visa Gold|Platinum|Corporate|Signature|Business ? $90

*ASIA/AUSTRALIA/Exotic:101,201,121 and others
MasterCard Standart, Visa Classic ? $75
Visa Gold|Platinum|Corporate|Signature|Business ? $80

*********************************************************
DUMPS BASE USA|APPROVAL 95%|TRACK 1|TRACK 2|CODE|STATE|CITYE|ZIP CODE
==================================
Track1: B4342562932763970^MEJIA/ JENNIFER ^19082010000000 00262000000
Track2: 4342562932763970=19082010000000262
Country Code: US
State: CA
City: Los Angeles
ZIP: 90022
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: B4170210011486405^ISSUE BRANDED/INSTANT^1807101000002372175725
Track2: 4170210011486405=18071010000000000100
Country Code: US
State: CA
City: Long Beach
ZIP: 90815
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: PREPAID
Purchase Pin 4100
==================================
Track1: B4867967004268433^SHELTON/NICHOLAS S^180820100
Track2: 4867967004268433=18082010000067100000
Country Code: US
State: OR
City: Eugene
ZIP: 97403
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: PLATINUM
==================================
Track1: B4246315201270657^LEE/HAROLD ^1712201100001100
Track2: 4246315201270657=171220110000005
Country Code: US
State: OR
City: Eugene
ZIP: 97403
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: CREDIT
Subtype: BUSINESS
==================================
Track1: %B4430473039706685^LIZER/DEJA^1707101180891
Track2: 4430473039706685=1707101180891850
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: Spartanburg
ZIP: 29306
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================
Track1: %B4271992353727169^VARN/ JODY R^171110100000000000383000000
Track2: 4271992353727169=17111010000000000383
Country Code: US
State: SC
City: West Columbia
ZIP: 29170
Type: VISA
Debit/Credit: DEBIT
Subtype: CLASSIC
==================================

ICQ: 664198618 /// e-mail: ***@gmail.com /// ATM™Worldwide
Dumps/Fullz/Bank/YESCARDS/Plastic TRACK1&2 Visa,MasterCard,Amex,Disco

====== DUMPS WITH PIN,TRACK 1 & 2 ==========

-Dumps + Pin,Tracks 1&2 US = $70 per 1
-Dumps + Pin,Tracks 1&2 UK = $80 per 1
-Dumps + Pin,Tracks 1&2 CA = $80 per 1
-Dumps + Pin,Tracks 1&2 AU = $80 per 1
-Dumps + Pin,Tracks 1&2 EU = $90 per 1

********************************************
CardNumber=4303269004813835
HolderName1=KOLNER /LEA B
HolderName2=
CardExp=10/18
Carrier=101
Pin : 3321
Track1=B4303269004813835^KOLNER /LEA B^101110100001388
Track2=4303269004813835=101110100001388
CardNumber=4022320000050409
HolderName1=MAJESKI/CARRIE L
HolderName2=
CardExp=11/21
Carrier=101
Pin:5542
Track1=B4022320000050409^MAJESKI/CARRIE L^11021011000000884000000
Track2=4022320000050409=110210110000884

*************** RULES MY BUSINESS ********************

Welcome to business: The Best Market for Dumps and CC
We offer the best and highest level of Dumps and CC.

*Strong BINS : Capable of High Value Swipes/Orders
*Best Quality : Allowing you to shop and cashout longer without risk of declines
*Lowest Prices : Get more cards for your cash

*NO TEST / NO SAMPLE
*SUPPORTS BINLIST / REPLACE 12HRS CVV/DUMPS
*ACCEPT BTC / WMZ / PM / MG / WU

http://atmsilver.blogspot.com/
EMAIL ADDRESS: ***@gmail.com
ICQ : 664198618

************ BUSINESS GOOD LONG TERM ********************

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